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Many airless tire concepts are still in development and testing, but some are already being used in off-road activities like farming and construction. They are often used on skid steers and can run over pretty much everything that would normally puncture a pneumatic (air-filled) tire. Airless tires for on-road use are not yet available. However, Michelin has a partnership with GM to offer airless tires on some new vehicles starting in 2024. 

 

Benefits of Airless Tires 

 

Road Trip Wisconsin 

When you think of hard-working tires, we bet 4 wheeling comes to mind! Apple Valley Farms Off-Road Park in New Auburn, Wisconsin offers some of the best trail systems for beginners to experts. The park is home to the Real Performance Machines 4 wheeling club, but they open the property to the public a couple weekends every summer. Check out their page for dates and details about these fun-filled camping and wheeling events. 

 

Podcast Transcription

Rob:

Welcome to our podcast. All about the car brought to you by Schierl Tire and Service. I'm your host, Rob Hoffman an auto service specialist with over 44 years of industry experience. Back with me today, our regular guest Brian Call a veteran in the automotive industry with over 40 years of experience. Hello Brian.

Brian:

Hey Rob. How you doing today?

Rob:

Excellent. And Bill Schierl, a guy that's been driving a long time, always comes to the table with a lot of great questions. Hello bill.

Bill:

Hi Rob. Today. I'm super excited to be here because I have a lot of questions.

New Speaker:

I'm. I'm glad to have you also along on the ride is Jody team leader of Schierl Tire Service in our Marshfield location. Hey Jody. Welcome back to our studio.

Jody:

Well, good morning guys.

Rob:

It's good to have you here and let's hop in, buckle up and hit the road today. We're talking about airless tire technology. What? Airless tires, you know, since the beginning of the automobile, the pneumatic tire or airfilled tire has always been the way we roll, but also since the beginning, the motoring public has always had to deal with what? The flat tire

Bill:

Flat flat

Rob:

Absolutely. It's been just a part of what we get used to we've come to fear the flat as it's estimated that 60% of roadside breakdowns are tire related. The tire industry over the years have come up with innovation, such as foam inserts, self-sealing tires and run flat technology, but we've never had the technology seen in mainstream transportation that we're gonna talk about today. So talking about technology going way back into time, the first run flat tire, and we'll get into that. But the first run flat tire was in the mid thirties. They actually were thinking about it or had that problem back then.

Bill:

So describe like run flat versus what we're talking about. Airless.

Rob:

Brian, what would you call air run flat? What would your description be?

Brian:

It's a pneumatic tire. It's gotta have air to operate, but it's got either construction in the side wall of the tire or an insert or another component within the tire cavity that allows it to have extended mobility. So you can drive with no air for a short period of time, typically under 50 miles an hour up to about 50 miles, but you can't just keep going and going like the airless technology.

Rob:

So really up until this idea of airless, that's been the latest and greatest. It's been the run flat technology.

Brian:

Yeah. Run flats have been around, like you said, since the thirties and gosh, you dial, dial it back to that era. Cars used to come with two or more spare tires because they had so many flat tires that they're you go to the grocery store, you're gonna be fixing the flat on your way there and your way back.

Rob:

Oh, that's no fun. You know, and Michelin was the one that brought that somewhat mainstream back in the thirties with the foam lining the combination foam lining and pneumatic. And when I say pneumatic, we're talking about airfield Bill. I know you came back to me in a previous podcast and said jargon alert. What's pneumatic. Well that's airfield. It turned out then that the tire that Michelin had produced was effective, but it was too expensive for the automotive business at that time. So they later used it on armored vehicles. That makes sense.

Bill:

It does.

Brian:

The HumV's got quite the system in it. It's got either a rubber insert or a aluminum insert built right inside the wheel. So when the tire goes flat and gets shot out, it drops down on this insert and can keep going and going and going.

Bill:

Plus it wouldn't be the most comfortable, but probably it's not that comfortable to get going.

Rob:

At that point doesn't matter.

Bill:

The comfort is not the point.

Rob:

No, just getting from one place to the other, without a breakdown.

Brian:

And to actually change one of those on the Humvees takes about two hours a piece

Rob:

Each tire,

Brian:

Each tire, cuz you gotta contain that insert. And it's quite the challenge.

Rob:

So the run flat technology's been around for a while. Goodyear and Chrysler partnered to produce a tire for one of their cars back in the late fifties and then Dunlop launched a run flat tire for Europe's Rover P6. I'd never heard of that car until I looked it up, but that was in the seventies. So we've been fighting this flat tire issue for a long, long time. And as we're gonna find out soon here, it might just be getting better in the future. So really with the airless tire technology, just like it says, we're not gonna need air.

Brian:

You might need something to breathe

Rob:

But our tires might go airless. So there's a lot of opinions on this and it's just really a cool thing to talk about. Three of the major tire manufacturers have actually been working on this for quite a while. I think since back in 19 or 2004, 2005. And in my research, what I found is that Bridgestone is one of those manufacturers. They've been working on a concept tire for quite a while now. And they still, I don't believe have brought it out in a lot of testing, real life testing, but they call it their gen two air free concept tire. And Goodyear actually has some rolling on the ground.

Brian:

I was not aware of that. That's pretty cool.

Rob:

They're actually an industry first for a non-pneumatic tire called NPT and they have been testing it for quite a while now on autonomous vehicles in a city setting and that's actually in Jacksonville. So that started back in 2019. So I'd say that's the best way to test it. Nobody's at stake, only the pedestrians.

Brian:

Yeah. Walking by.

Rob:

Yeah, But nobody's behind the wheel on that. And they've actually used it on some autonomous delivery vehicles in a college atmosphere type setting. Sounds like things are going good. Everything seemed positive in the research that I had come across. And then Michelin is very active. That's the third manufacturer that we're talking about, very active with the airless technology and their products is called the UPTIS. What does that stand for?

Jody:

Unique puncture proof tire system.

Rob:

Well there that's pretty self explanatory.

Brian:

wow. You go,

Jody:

I did my research

Rob:

And that one actually is the closest to reality at this point from an actual being used with people involved, Michelin and GM actually has formed a partnership and that tire is actually slated for original equipment in 2024 on a GM car. So here it comes, everybody. It's not far away. But what we do see in today's world is the Michelin Twheel. Give us a little bit of insight on the Twheel. What exactly is that?

Rob:

It's for offroad applications typically on a skid steer in farming or construction, where to have a tire go flat is really common running over nails or rebar or whatever. So they've been in use for quite a while now. It allows the operator to keep going, cuz there's obviously no air in the tire and it can run over pretty much anything and keep going strong.

Rob:

So the technology that we see today that is real today is the Michelin twheel. So what does twheel stand for?

Rob:

I have no idea

Rob:

Tire and wheel, I think tire and wheel. So it's a combination. It's all one piece.

Rob:

It's definitely all one piece. You buy it and install it on your machine. You take the rim off, along with the pneumatic tire that it would've come with. It's truly a puncture proof tire. So that offroad applications you can keep going after running over pretty much anything that would take down a normal pneumatic tire.

Rob:

So that's technology that we see today.

Rob:

Yeah.

Rob:

And we actually at Schierl Tire and Service have sold these tires. We have these tires available, providing they are available to us. We are able to sell them to construction companies.

Brian:

It's specific applications. It's typically on a skid steer and we've been doing it for several years now and they work out really, really well. And those applications that are prone to getting tire.

Bill:

So what is the wear and tear on it? I mean, has, have they gone so many years that we've not replaced one or when you have to replace it, what is the wear and tear that you're seeing?

Brian:

It's, it's typical with a skid steer in that application, a normal pneumatic tire.

Bill:

So it's really the tread that wears out and not the infrastructure...

New Speaker:

Correct.

Bill:

Of the twheel.

Brian:

Yep. Unfortunately there's no technology at this point. You take it off and put another one on, but yeah, wears out just like a regular tire

Rob:

With construction type businesses. Downtime is very, very important. And like you said, you cannot puncture this tire. You can't make it immobile.

Rob:

It's got no air, so it can't lose it.

Rob:

Now we've gotten listener questions in the past asking one particular that I remember asked how would this do offroad on my pickup truck? Unfortunately, the twheel is not available for that application at this time, but gonna make the assumption that's coming up in the future. Maybe some more testing.

Rob:

I'm sure there's gonna be significantly more testing for off-road application on a full size vehicle. They're currently, as you talked about testing it in warm climates in controlled environments, it's gonna be a bit before it's mainstream.

Rob:

Well, as with every all about the car podcast, we always break away for a Wisconsin road trip and we were just talking about offroading and getting dirty and muddy. And that's exactly where we're going. We're gonna head up to Apple Valley Farms Offroad Park. Where is that located in Wisconsin?

Bill:

Up near between Dresser and St. Croix Falls.

Rob:

Okay. So I'm picturing the upper west.

Bill:

Far up west.

Speaker 1:

Corner of the state.

Bill:

Near Lake Mississippi.

Rob:

And the name says it all Offroad park.

Bill:

Mississippi river,

Brian:

Where the St. Croix river dumps into the Mississippi river, the nose of the Indians face as you look at the map, of Wisconsin.

Rob:

Oh, okay. So this is gonna be definitely a road trip. We're gonna go north with this when we're gonna take our offroad buggy or pickup truck or Jeep, or we're just gonna go up there and watch everybody else play in the mud and have a good time

Brian:

Crossover on highway eight. So you can get an idea how far north you are. Highway eight goes straight to St. Croix Falls.

Rob:

Now the big players at the Apple Valley Farm Offroad Park is a member organization called Real Performance Machines. They are based out of the Twin Cities, but they've got some pretty crazy and wild rides. You can check 'em out, look, 'em up online. There are two weekends that they are open to the public and you can camp there as well. So you gotta check it out. Definitely can get down and dirty and maybe a good place to test this airless technology once that comes around.

Brian:

I don't know about that. Looking at looking at some of these vehicles, it looks like they do a lot of rock crawling, which is really hard on sidewalls.

Rob:

And if you don't have a side wall?

Brian:

If you don't have a side wall, there's nothing you can do about it.

Rob:

Yeah. And it's definitely some good information online to check 'em out. They've got different types of trail systems within the Apple Valley Farms Offroad Park that goes from easy to expert. So it's pretty much like any kind of trail system, whether it be bicycle hiking, anything like that, easy to expert. And you gotta check it out because it's definitely gonna be a fun and muddy weekend

Brian:

Looks pretty cool.

Bill:

It's also open in the winter. So that's awesome.

Rob:

That's great. Those are some hardcore four-wheelers doing this in the winter time.

Brian:

Yeah. Things are definitely more prone to breaking when it's below zero.

Rob:

All right. Hop back in the vehicle and get back to our podcast about airless tire technology. And yeah, we'll get into some more conversations in regards to this new technology that we just might see in the future. And some of the reasons why this technology has come to light.The obvious reason is to not get a flat tire. And again, I came back, I'll come back to my previous comment that 60% of roadside breakdowns are tire related. I would think that almost eliminate that, but what are some of the other reasons and benefits to the world of going airless with airless tire technology?

Jody:

Well, it's just not about the flat tire anymore with the materials that they're using it less raw materials. There's no need for a spare, obviously.

Rob:

Ah, that's a good point,

Bill:

Right.

Jody:

You're not gonna have air in it for repair and throw in your trunk and get to somewhere .

Bill:

Yeah.

Rob:

So we're actually gonna possibly even lighten up the vehicle too, by not having that spare tire hanging there.

Jody:

Yep. And more time for traveling versus trying to worry about all the mechanical goals going in, make sure your tires are all ready to go for a trip. Do you have enough tread less tires in the landfill?

Rob:

Oh

Jody:

So that for our economy, that would be a lot better,

Speaker 1:

Good point.

Jody:

The materials that are used it's actually for recyclable versus well, well, we do that now with our tires, but thermal plastics is a recyclable.

Rob:

Yeah.

Jody:

That's what's in the tire itself.

Rob:

They say that's easily recyclable a lot easier than rubber tire.

Bill:

And I think also if there's no air in it, then you can't under...

Brian:

Under inflate

Bill:

Under or overinflated it, it's gonna be always the same.

Brian:

So your rolling resistance would remain constant. So fuel economy will obviously go up because of that.

Rob:

And one of the biggest reasons for irregular tire wear in today's pneumatic tires is either over or under inflation. That's a big piece or a big part of why our tires wear funny and start making weird noises. If you didn't have to worry about inflation at all, that should really make a big difference when it comes to where.

Bill:

And. then, then the TPMS light goes away.

Rob:

Oh, wouldn't that be great.

Bill:

So watch out another industry will bite the dust, the company that makes all the TPMS monitors it systems , but come and go in our lifetime, like the fax machine .

Rob:

Yeah. The what?

Bill:

Yeah.

Rob:

You know what's kind of scary about this whole thing is with 60% less roadside breakdowns, this could make the autonomous vehicles reality much quicker.

Bill:

I can appreciate that since those vehicles just would keep going and going and going.

Rob:

Absolutely.

Jody:

Well think of how the industry would be as if they get 'em on the semi tires. Don't have to worry. Everybody's loads will be on time and.

Bill:

Right.

Jody:

Well at least hopefully.

Bill:

Yeah.

Jody:

But no repair, no sitting down, no waiting in the middle of the night.

Bill:

Now wait a second. What about our commercial...

Jody:

Correct.

Bill:

Technicians repairing these tires.

Brian:

I think we're a long ways away from that. At this point, there's a whole different dynamics with the loads that they carry

Bill:

Fair.

Rob:

10 years from now, you could just imagine with what we've gone through with automotive technology in the last five years, 10 years, whatever the case may be 10 years from now, things are gonna look a little bit different. And you think about what's coming up autonomous vehicles. We see that in the news already.

Bill:

It's already in existence.

Rob:

Yep. Elect... Full electric vehicles is becoming mainstream at this point in artificial intelligence is another thing that's gonna play into this as well. Us being able to talk with also with a car and the car talking back to us.

Bill:

Right.

Rob:

We're there.

Bill:

Right.

Rob:

I think aren't we,

Bill:

Well...

Brian:

Well, did you see that article with the autonomous car getting pulled over by the police

Rob:

Yes

Bill:

And it pulled away

Brian:

And did what it was supposed to.

Rob:

Yup.

Brian:

The police car then got up there and the car drove on.

Speaker 3:

Rob:

Like, and went across the intersection and parked again.

Bill:

Right.

Rob:

That was funny. That was funny. But that's what is on the verge here? That's what's coming up.

Brian:

It's horizon.

Rob:

It's on horizon.

Bill:

And the interaction with maps. So just even speaking to your vehicles and saying, take me home or the navigation. Cause I think of getting in your car and just saying, oh, take me to the grocery store. And it knows where to go.

Jody:

All right. Now with Subaru, the commercials all constantly where it says, you know, you only have a thin line between you and the other person where the semi comes across. Father looks back the vehicle in front of him stops and the vehicle stop by himself.

Bill:

Right.

Jody:

That kind scary. But ...

Brian:

That exists currently. That's mainstream.

Jody:

Yep.

Rob:

So 10 years from now, who knows what it's gonna look like.

Bill:

And then we bring in...

Rob:

It's gonna be crazy.

Bill:

Right? Then we bring in 3d printing. We may be printing tires at home. that's you just buy on the internet. So I want these tires, the program gets downloaded and on your home 3d printer, it just prints a tire and you put it on.

Jody:

That is scary.

Rob:

That is scary. Oh my gosh. That's a whole nother podcast Bill.

Bill:

That is another podcast printing a car.

Rob:

We've taken a short trip back in time and into the future with zero pressure tire technology. And what did we learn? There'll come a day when we might not need air at all. We hope to have you ride along next time on all about the car. To listen to previous episodes, find additional resources or to simply send us a message head to all about the car podcast dot com. We'll see you next time.