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Speaker 1 (00:01):

Welcome to our podcast. All about the car brought to you by Schierl tire and service. I'm your host, Rob Hoffman and auto service specialist with over 44 years of industry experience with me in the studio today, our regular guests, Brian call a 38 year veteran in the automotive industry.

Speaker 2 (00:19):

Hey Rob, thank you so much for having me ride along today.

Speaker 1 (00:21):

And bill Sheryl, a guy who's been driving a long time and it has a lot of great questions. Hi,

Speaker 3 (00:26):

Rob, glad to be part of the drive today.

Speaker 4 (00:34):

[inaudible]

Speaker 1 (00:35):

Today we're talking about TPMS. Yes. Kind of sounds like a medical condition. Doesn't it? It does. Well, let's clear this up. It stands for tire pressure monitoring system. Yes. Tire pressure monitoring system. And that has to do with your car and light truck.

Speaker 2 (00:51):

Rob, do you know when tire pressure monitors first came onto the scene

Speaker 1 (00:56):

As timelines go with relatively recent, but back in the eighties, they came as equipment on European luxury cars and the next year, the first American car to be equipped with TPMS was the 97 Chevrolet core bed.

Speaker 2 (01:10):

I know back in 2007, it was mandated on cars. Do you know why? I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:16):

It was September 1st. It was mandated on auto and light truck in 2007. And the reason for that was a huge issue that we had back in those days with a major tire recall. So, uh, the Clinton administration decided that we need to have some standards out there called the tread act T R E a D act. And that stands for transportation, recall enhancement, accountability, and documentation. Now that sounds

Speaker 3 (01:43):

Like a medical procedure

Speaker 1 (01:44):

For sure, but that does, that's a way out there, but it's, it's a good thing that we have that in place it's made a big difference in our lives today and with the car manufacturers

Speaker 2 (01:54):

That goes back to the Ford Explorer and the 2 35 75 15 tires that were failing,

Speaker 1 (02:00):

Doesn't it? It does. And actually, uh, as a result of those failures, this accounted for over a hundred deaths,

Speaker 3 (02:08):

All right, now enough of the details. If I have a car today, do I have TPMS on it or not in when was it always in every car?

Speaker 2 (02:17):

So in 2007, it was mandated for all passenger car tires in the United States. And there's a couple of different ways that the TPMS system works. There's an indirect and a direct TPMS. The indirect actually uses the speed sensor that is utilized for the antilock brake system. And it measures the actual miles per hour that the tire is turning. And if it sees a variance between the four, it will turn on the light and tell you that there's something going on.

Speaker 1 (02:51):

So let me back up just a moment here, the 2008 and newer, so that, you know what the average car on the road, these days, 11 years old, that means we still have some of those old vehicles on the road. So how would I know if my vehicle, if I have an older than 2007, let's say vehicle has TPMS. How would I know that

Speaker 2 (03:10):

The dash is going to have a light that's going to come on and to indicate that there's a low tire?

Speaker 1 (03:16):

Okay. So you will actually have an indicator on the dash will be one of those, uh, Christmas tree lights that you don't want to see, but you'd have one of those. There'll

Speaker 2 (03:23):

Be a light that comes on on the dash. Okay.

Speaker 3 (03:26):

It kind of looks like a flat tire with an exclamation point without the.in the middle,

Speaker 2 (03:31):

Since 2007, that was mandated prior to that, it could be various different types of lights.

Speaker 1 (03:38):

Okay. So if I had a, like a 2005, a Chevy Impala, I may or may not have that, that system on my car. That is correct.

Speaker 2 (03:45):

Okay.

Speaker 1 (03:48):

So Brian, you were talking about two different types of systems, a direct system, and an indirect system, uh, are both of these accurate,

Speaker 2 (03:55):

The direct system is more accurate. In most cases, most of the systems will actually tell you which tire is low and what the actual air pressure is, but not all direct TPMS does that. Some may just indicate that there is a tire low on the car, but won't tell you which one or what pressure. So it depends on the year, make and model of the car. The indirect, one of the disadvantages to that type of system is if all four tires are low, it may or may not indicate that there is a low tire. It has to see the difference between the actual miles per hour, that the tire is going versus the other ones.

Speaker 1 (04:38):

Is there a standard among car manufacturers and its systems as to when they light or the indicator comes on as far as what pressure

Speaker 2 (04:47):

Or low in most cases, if it's more than 25% low, then that will trigger the light to come on.

Speaker 3 (04:53):

And is that something to do with exterior temperature as well? Does that affect?

Speaker 2 (04:58):

Absolutely. We see that all the time in the fall, when the weather changes, the tire pressures drop and they typically drop at a different rate, the light comes on in the dash and there's many times that we just have to top off the air pressure and they're good to go. Other times there is an actual problem and we have to get in and repair the tire.

Speaker 1 (05:21):

Well, our cars have become really, really smart. The thing is, is all of these smart things in the cars, I guess if you will, and computers are, are a good thing because it's all geared towards our safety, totally

Speaker 2 (05:31):

Safety driven. 100%.

Speaker 3 (05:34):

Speaking of that, if that light comes on, how long can I keep driving? Do I need to immediately pull over? Am I going to have a flat tire blow up

Speaker 2 (05:42):

At that point? You don't know. It depends on how quick the tire is going down. What type of injury happened to the tire, or if it's just a slow leak over the course of a couple of weeks to a month. So it might be a good

Speaker 3 (05:55):

Idea to at least stop the pull over to the side of the road and take a look at my tires. If all of a sudden I'm driving and one comes up.

Speaker 2 (06:03):

If you have the sensors that transmit the exact tire pressure to the dash, you can keep an eye on that, um, that may or may not tell you if you need to pull over right away. If the pressure drops quickly, obviously you want to get off to the side of the road, as far as you can, as safe as you can, as quickly as possible.

Speaker 1 (06:22):

I've heard some comments. Um, as I move around in my daily routine that, uh, sometimes people just don't like these systems. They think they're more of a hassle than they are a health. Can you shed some light on that?

Speaker 2 (06:34):

They can definitely be a hassle, but gotta keep in mind. It's for safety. What I mean by that is you come into the fall with significant temperature changes and those tire pressure lights come on quite a bit. And it's nothing to do. 2030 tire pressure checks after a drops down below freezing when it's been nice and sunny the last few days. So it's something that you still have to check, but it's kind of inconvenient. So do I need to

Speaker 3 (07:02):

Check my tires at any other time? If I don't have a light that comes

Speaker 2 (07:06):

The tire pressure should be checked periodically when you get your oil changed. That is typically when they get checked checking at once a month, even if the light doesn't come on is a good practice.

Speaker 1 (07:18):

The TPMS system and its warning system should not take the place of manually checking your tire pressure. Is that what I'm hearing?

Speaker 2 (07:25):

Absolutely. Because then you can take a peek and see if there's any snags or injuries or metal things sticking out of the tire that might give you an indication of a future problem. So

Speaker 1 (07:35):

The rule of thumb is to continue to check your tire pressures, give it a once, look over before you head down the road every once a month or so. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (07:43):

However,

Speaker 3 (07:44):

Can I turn the whole thing

Speaker 2 (07:46):

Originally when the laws were written for tire pressure monitoring systems, you had to keep the system working. So if you brought your car in for repair and we were working on the tires, it was required that it left fixed. It has been since changed that if the system is not working and we're working on the tires, the system can leave, not working. If you have a set of snow tires that you switch over to in the fall, and you got the rim and tire assembly, and it does not have the monitors in it. If we switched it over the card left, without the monitors working, we're not allowed to do that. But if it came in for a flat tire and the tire pressure monitor was the culprit and it doesn't work, we can put a valve stem in and leave it on functioning so that you can continue about your day. So if it works, it has to leave working. If it doesn't work, we can fix it up the way we need to.

Speaker 1 (08:50):

No, at the end of the day, I, again, I come back to the fact that this is such a great safety tool is I don't know why anybody would want to do without it, if your car is equipped with it, I think you're best just to keep it.

Speaker 3 (09:02):

I agree. Totally. You can't rely on it, but it's a great measure for safety and recognition that if all of a sudden, a couple months go by and you Kevin like really checked into it, it's a great precaution to just say, Hey, I know I'm somewhat protected.

Speaker 2 (09:17):

That's the whole reason the system was developed. If we go back to the Ford, recall with the tires, the tires had 26 pounds of air pressure in them as the normal operating pressure. If you'd lose a couple of pounds, you're down to 24, 23, and that tire cannot not support the weight of the vehicle. So going back to that, it was just a small amount of air that could create a problem. Think how many times you've driven down the road and the car in front of you, the tire looks like it's flat. That's what it's designed to prevent, gives you an indication that there's something going on. It makes sense

Speaker 3 (09:54):

To me,

Speaker 1 (09:56):

We've talked about the good and maybe the perceived not so good, but what are the benefits we've already talked about? Uh, in my opinion, number one is safety, but what are some of the other, other benefits of having the system

Speaker 2 (10:08):

To let you know that the air pressure is up where it needs to be? And if you can adjust that pressure as quickly as possible, it'll save possible tire where possible tire failure improve fuel economy. And again, back to safety,

Speaker 1 (10:24):

Safety is exactly what we want when we, uh, decide to just open the garage door, get in the vehicle and go for a summer drive, Hey, speak in a witch, Wisconsin. We live in such a beautiful country. There's so much to see, and I'm just going to squirrel for a minute here. Have you guys ever heard of them? Enderle cut.

Speaker 2 (10:42):

Absolutely. That is a really cool road trip to go on. Bill.

Speaker 1 (10:46):

Have you ever been there?

Speaker 3 (10:47):

I have actually, since growing up my great aunt and uncle lived in west Salem, which is at the west side of the menorah cup, which is in the Southwest corner area of the state and of the Madora cut starts in [inaudible] and it goes through and ends in west Salem that road, that 74 feet deep it's on highway 1 0 8. And what's amazing about that is that cut was built back in like 1907 to 1908. And it was all hand dug with horse and buggies pulling that out. You know, like we can play in about some work today. That's, uh, that's a lot of work to remove that much rock.

Speaker 1 (11:28):

And for those of you that don't know what a cut is, it's actually a cut through some very hard rock. They thought I was, it was a soft rock or sandstone, but I've come to find out. It was a very hard rock underneath and took almost a year of, uh, removing rock to make this cut or this pass, if you will, through this Ridge

Speaker 3 (11:48):

And the Enduro cut, actually it seems to be the second largest hand honed cut in the nation, which is pretty cool. I don't know where the first one is or the other one is,

Speaker 2 (11:58):

Uh, it's a great ride. If you ever get a chance, go down there, beautiful country, nice winding roads leading up through the valley. It's pretty,

Speaker 1 (12:06):

You know, I took that climb on a bicycle. So I actually did the bike ride. That goes all the way up to that. Cut. And you get up to the top and it's just an amazing, amazing sight to see, especially if you know the history behind it and

Speaker 3 (12:19):

Coming down, I assume is easier.

Speaker 1 (12:21):

Oh, coming down that hill was just awesome.

Speaker 3 (12:24):

I know a lot of motorcyclists, like the Maduro cut ride for that reason.

Speaker 1 (12:30):

Absolutely. I urge everybody to go out there and check it out. A Google admin Durrell cut, and you're going to learn a lot of history and you're going to find out how to get there and have a good time. So a lot of maintenance are required on vehicles. How about the TPMS system? Is there anything that we should do to maintain the system or is it something that just continues to operate on its own?

Speaker 2 (12:52):

It's all, self-contained, there's nothing that you need to do as a vehicle owner to it. If you get your tires rotated some vehicles, you don't have to do anything. Some vehicles you actually have to go in and reprogram where the wheel is. And those are the ones that tell you the actual pressure of each individual wheel. So that's something that's done by the shop when they surface your vehicle.

Speaker 1 (13:16):

So does every garage have the ability to reset or to recalibrate the system?

Speaker 2 (13:23):

Most that I know of are all able to do that.

Speaker 3 (13:27):

Don't the sensors or anything in the system ever wear out

Speaker 2 (13:31):

The batteries initially was thought to have a shelf life of about five to seven years. And we're finding that the batteries are lasting a lot longer than that. Anywhere from 10 to 12 years, eventually the battery will go dead. It cannot be serviced. It's incorporated right into the tire pressure monitor. So at that point, the sensor needs to be replaced.

Speaker 1 (13:53):

So there was no such thing as replacing the battery. You need to replace the whole sense of correct.

Speaker 2 (13:56):

It's completely integrated into the sensor

Speaker 3 (13:59):

And do, if I ever hit a pothole large enough, could I damage the sensor?

Speaker 2 (14:04):

That'd be pretty tough because it's down inside the car. One of the biggest things that we see what the original sensors is, they were a metal stem and that metal corroded and the tire would start leaking because the seal isn't there anymore.

Speaker 3 (14:20):

And if that sensor doesn't send a signal, how do I ever know? I mean like, or is that just one of those routine maintenance? You know, I mean, if the light never goes on or is there a fail proof within the system that if, if not getting a message from the sensor, does the car know that

Speaker 2 (14:37):

Yes, it'll turn the dash light on the low tire pressure lights, because it's not seeing the sensor. And on some occasions it'll actually start flashing to let you know that there's a system failure.

Speaker 3 (14:50):

And if I had to replace

Speaker 2 (14:52):

One, approximately how much does this whole thing cost? I mean, we've talked about how wonderful it is, but how costly is it? If one got damaged wears out, blah, blah, blah. It does vary between manufacturers. In most cases, it's about $75 to replace the sensor and reprogram the system that's per wheel

Speaker 1 (15:11):

That's per

Speaker 2 (15:12):

Whale or wheel. Okay. Some of the vehicles actually have a sensor in the spare tire too. So that light is being persistent. We need to get back there and double check the spare tire.

Speaker 1 (15:23):

So it sounds like not every vehicle has a sensor in their spare tire. Correct. Okay. It's not, I don't think it's mandatory, but some of them might do it. Correct. Okay. So I would imagine there's some times or some service that you get done to your car, where you're going to have to have those services as well, such as possibly a tire rotation or a new tires.

Speaker 2 (15:43):

It depends on the car. Um, some of them, you just replace the tire, rotate the tires and you drive it for 10 to 15 minutes, and then we'll automatically reset other ones that you actually have to program them. So when you're doing the tire rotation or replacing the tires through repair facility may or may not have to reprogram those sensors,

Speaker 1 (16:05):

I'm hearing some of the systems actually will keep track of the position of that wheel. When it moves around the car. When you rotator, you get new tires and the wheels end up in a different position,

Speaker 2 (16:15):

That particular system doesn't know which tire is at what pressure. It just knows that one of them has fallen below the threshold and then turns the light on.

Speaker 3 (16:27):

So then if I'm listening to this and like car doesn't have a system, can I buy a system and have them installed in my tires?

Speaker 2 (16:36):

Yeah. There's actually kits out there that you can put on the older cars. And it will indicate whether you have a low tire or not

Speaker 3 (16:44):

True of any tiredly camper tires. Does the system pick up

Speaker 2 (16:48):

That stuff up? Yup. You can set it up for any type of trailer, RV, semis, even have them. So it's available for all the different types of tires out there except lawn and garden and things like that, where it's not so bad to go flat.

Speaker 3 (17:03):

You know, I had to refill my wheelbarrow tire just the other day and it would've been nice to know a little sensor to my phone or something to say, Hey, before you need to use this, your tire is flat.

Speaker 2 (17:16):

Well, you might be able to get out of some work, just leaving that flat.

Speaker 1 (17:19):

No, I think the two of you have sold me all the way around on this thing. I'm going to get TPMS for everything I might find.

Speaker 3 (17:25):

However, it doesn't work on nitrogen filled tires.

Speaker 2 (17:28):

It doesn't know the difference. Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:31):

So it's directly measuring pressure tire

Speaker 2 (17:34):

Pressure. That's it.

Speaker 1 (17:37):

There's a lot of information here and we have some links that can back all of this up as well. We talked about the history and the facts about TPMS and the fact that it is not a medical condition. It is tire pressure monitoring system. We also talked about TPMS and your car. In other words, if your car has it or not in how you would know, and the safety features of the TPMS system and the benefits that all follow. We also talked about servicing the system. If there is anything to be done, we had some questions at the end and re referenced to replacing the sensors if needed. And if we can add them to a vehicle that does not have them equipped already, you can find these informational [email protected]. So right along with us next time, when we talk about wheel alignments, where it's all about the car to listen to previous episodes, to find additional resources or send us a message head to all about the car podcast.com. See you next time.

Speaker 4 (18:39):

[inaudible].